Medical bills – what you get instead of paying higher taxes

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17 Apr 2018 15:18 - +3406
It's funny, I always tell people "University is free in my country" and americans always response with "you pay taxes"... Well so do you. Turns out I currently pay the exact same tax rates as americans, only the tax rate limit is far higher in Germany for richer people. So we pay the same taxes but I got University, health care, public transportation (certain types) etc, and you pay the same and get shit.
17 Apr 2018 15:09 - +2950
The hilarious and depressing point that the original thread misses is that the US actually spends more *public* money per capita on healthcare than the UK, France, Germany, Sweden etc. All that money just for Medicare and Medicaid. And that's before your private insurance premium ($6,690 was the 2017 nationwide average for an individual plan purchased through an employer). The inefficiency in the US healthcare system is mind-boggling. *edit. Sources: *edit 2: A lot of people are conflating overall health costs and pharmaceutical spending. Currently pharmaceutical spending is about 10% of US national health expenditure. Even a huge cut to our prescription drug spending would make a tiny dent in our overall healthcare costs. It's not quite as big an issue as the debate around it would lead you to believe.
17 Apr 2018 14:42 - +1878
I always love the "but what about the long wait times" bullshit. You're waiting longer, for non-emergencies, because more people are getting their health taken care of. It's highly unlikely that the increase in wait times is going to negatively affect you anymore than simply waiting longer. And again, it's for everyone to get taken care of. Fair fucking trade off.
17 Apr 2018 14:53 - +725
Wait a second... Is that guy saying the higher taxes is a worse trade off? Like, with all the extra you pay in insurance and then on the medical care itself, hes ok with that as long as the government don't get taxes? I mean. Shit, I moved from the UK to Switzerland and I absolutely miss the NHS. Private healthcare here is like £300 a month and then a huge franchise, plus extra costs... Tax may be 16% points lower, but spending on healthcare closes that gap considerably and, for the first time in my life, I have had to consider money over health.. how is this a better system lol
17 Apr 2018 15:02 - +524
Haven't been to a doctor in over a year because i can't afford it. last time i went it was because i'd had a persistent cough for around 2 months and i'd delayed because i knew that no matter what, if i went, we probably wouldn't be able to get food for a while and would've been at risk of not being able to afford rent. bit the bullet and went when it got so bad i was throwing up from coughing so much. turns out i had pneumonia and if i'd kept leaving it untreated i'd have died. if i get a cough like that again i won't wait but who the fuck knows what else i'll have to "wait and see" to get treated or looked at? can't go for everything, me and my family wouldn't be able to survive from the debt. has to be something that's VERY CLEARLY a threat to my life or long term quality of life in a serious way (something that would handicap me).
17 Apr 2018 15:33 - +299
I live in the U.S. and a few years ago my mom’s gallbladder ruptured after being infected for 2 weeks (we didn’t know until later). We were the only two home, and I couldn’t drive at the time. My mom refused to let me call 911 because just the ride in the ambulance alone would’ve cost too much for us. If my dad hadn’t luckily been in his way home, she wouldn’t have made it. The healthcare system in America literally has rational people choose to not seek medical attention for fear of the immense debt it may cause. It’s fucked, and seeing my mom on the floor like that while not being able to DO anything fucked me up for a while too. Oh, we also spent the next 4 years paying off those bills, with insurance.
17 Apr 2018 14:53 - +276
I love how people think that private coverage policies just disappear in universal healthcare. They're still there and about half the cost of a US policy. Don't wanna wait? Buy extra coverage. Best of both worlds.
17 Apr 2018 15:14 - +131
Yeah I have no idea how you guys can live with the fact that if something happens you might have to pay off debt for the rest of your life.
17 Apr 2018 15:50 - +84
Given the gigantic scam health insurance is I would understand if someone thought that was going to be to public funds. But here in Europe we pay much less and we make sure everyone has a chance regardless of their income. Because nothing sucks more than being left behind because of having an accident or contracting a serious disease. I can't wrap my head around the idea of being okay with letting your neighbor rot because they can't pay the medical bills. Solidarity is important in a society and I rather have 10 persons that abuse the system (which is the stupid argument some use), than 90 that suffer because they don't get attention because they can't afford it. I am happy to have my taxes used so that if I need it some day they are going to have me covered without having to worry about debt. And in the mean time, I am happy to help.
17 Apr 2018 15:32 - +82
Uninsured life sucks. I'm from Texas worked for HHSC when our governor decided not to expand Medicaid. I had to turn away people who were literally dying of cancer, kidney disease, and other ailments. It eventually took a toll on my own health after watching my sister pass away from breast cancer that could have been detected earlier had she worked for an employer with health coverage. 120.00 out of pocket to see my doctor today. Prescriptions another 40/mo or so with GoodRx discount program. This is all just to treat migraines, anxiety, depression. Forget affording much needed therapy that could assist with the medications or help to get me off of them. Texas is probably the worst when it comes to those who are uninsured. BTW I am uninsured due to being laid-off; no fault of my own but my measly unemployment benefits put me over the income for Medicaid for adults with children. Hey, at least my kids were given coverage. Thanks Rick Abbott & the people who chose not to vote or that vote for garbage like him.
17 Apr 2018 16:27 - +75
Or we could simply limit these insane markups of medical products. 200 for a bag of sterile water is madness.
17 Apr 2018 17:12 - +71
I never understood the 'yea but you pay taxes' argument. Even IF the taxes you pay are higher (which they mostly arent, except if you're really rich but whatever), why would that matter? If the choice is between paying more taxes, or having my life ruined by medical bills if I get sick at any point, you still pick 'paying slightly more taxes' over the alternative.
17 Apr 2018 16:53 - +57
I remember reading about the idea that America simply has a different concept of “freedom” than other nations. In the United States. We see “things to choose” as freedom. In other nations, “not having to worry about making a choice” is freedom. IMHO: A system in which an estimated 25% to 50% of a nations bankruptcies are due to medical expenses is flawed. Insurance companies do not have your bet interest at heart, and normally I’d say that’s fine for a corporation, but in this instance it’s ar the cost of quality of life.
17 Apr 2018 16:12 - +54
Yeah, instead of healthcare you guys have a massive military.
17 Apr 2018 16:50 - +41
ELI5 - Why do some Americans think their health care system is the dogs bollocks when it's clearly just bollocks? Very expensive bollocks?
17 Apr 2018 15:10 - +39
Our medical system needs some serious reform.
17 Apr 2018 16:25 - +21
France does not have it figured out. Wait times for certain specialists are well over 6 months here. Eye doctors are especially bad, and it doesn’t matter if your sights is so bad you can’t read or use a computer. And no, it’s not 100% free, you still have to pay.
17 Apr 2018 16:27 - +17
Where the shit in America is this guy going that there are no waits?
17 Apr 2018 17:35 - +7
Living in NZ with socialised medical coverage. I have tennis elbow. I can pay $260 for an ultrasound or use the government system. Unfortunately, elbows go to the bottom of the priority list and will need to wait three months or more.
17 Apr 2018 21:35 - +1
Given the popularity of this post, I'd like to remind everyone of Bill and Ted's Law: [Be excellent to each other.](

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